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	<title>Comments on: Whuffie and the snowball</title>
	<atom:link href="http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball</link>
	<description>Picking out patterns in the chaos</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 20:47:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: JamesJayTrouble</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1709</link>
		<dc:creator>JamesJayTrouble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 17:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1709</guid>
		<description>aggg, I actually did prof that...;-D

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aggg, I actually did prof that&#8230;;-D</p>
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		<title>By: JamesJayTrouble</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1708</link>
		<dc:creator>JamesJayTrouble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 17:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1708</guid>
		<description>Perhaps you grow weary of the metablogging, but it ties in with the Alister phenom.

&gt;&gt; "Because of her blog she's come across people she wouldn't otherwise have come across, ... To me, the empowerment there is obvious - the blog allows her to collate resources and connect to people in a way that she could not otherwise do."

I am, perhaps, over-utilitarian but I really prefer the idea of blogs that are subject-specific for that reason.  Where the subject is other that getting-whuffie, that is.

And, because I've been in computers for 30 years and reading blogs off and on for 4 or 5, this is the thing that bugs me the most:  It is the bloggertude that blogging and interacting through the computers is THE BEST WAY TO DO EVERYTHING.  (I think people could stand some rekindlement with people, because they'd be bitch-slapped for a  mindset if they had a conversation once in a while...;-)


&gt;&gt; "Look further than the metasphere, look in the long tail, and you'll see people doing stuff with blogs that is truly useful, interesting and beneficial."

Useful and interesting is sometimes more of big time-drain than a benefit.  That's why I've likened blogs to the new high-brow infotainment like Public TV and Radio used to be.

&gt;&gt; "You'll find there the people who are truly empowered by blogs. It's only around the spike, and amongst those who wish they were in the spike, that the whuffie feifdoms you talk of hold sway."

Imo/o (in my opinion/observation) the spikes get their power FROM the long tail, or the Alisters wouldn't be pawning off the meme that "the value is all in the blogs with a dozen readers".  Why do they publish on a web of a billion then, instead of privately these Alisters a tale-enders, I wonder...?...;-D

Anyway, I've waited for speech-to-text to broaden the base of the tail for a while, especially in workplaces (being the utilitarian), but haven't seen a while lot...

Anyhoo, keep the snowballs flying uphill, I allus say...;-D  Iow, enjoying yer blog, shameless hypocrite that I am.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps you grow weary of the metablogging, but it ties in with the Alister phenom.</p>
<p>>> &#8220;Because of her blog she&#8217;s come across people she wouldn&#8217;t otherwise have come across, &#8230; To me, the empowerment there is obvious - the blog allows her to collate resources and connect to people in a way that she could not otherwise do.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am, perhaps, over-utilitarian but I really prefer the idea of blogs that are subject-specific for that reason.  Where the subject is other that getting-whuffie, that is.</p>
<p>And, because I&#8217;ve been in computers for 30 years and reading blogs off and on for 4 or 5, this is the thing that bugs me the most:  It is the bloggertude that blogging and interacting through the computers is THE BEST WAY TO DO EVERYTHING.  (I think people could stand some rekindlement with people, because they&#8217;d be bitch-slapped for a  mindset if they had a conversation once in a while&#8230;;-)</p>
<p>>> &#8220;Look further than the metasphere, look in the long tail, and you&#8217;ll see people doing stuff with blogs that is truly useful, interesting and beneficial.&#8221;</p>
<p>Useful and interesting is sometimes more of big time-drain than a benefit.  That&#8217;s why I&#8217;ve likened blogs to the new high-brow infotainment like Public TV and Radio used to be.</p>
<p>>> &#8220;You&#8217;ll find there the people who are truly empowered by blogs. It&#8217;s only around the spike, and amongst those who wish they were in the spike, that the whuffie feifdoms you talk of hold sway.&#8221;</p>
<p>Imo/o (in my opinion/observation) the spikes get their power FROM the long tail, or the Alisters wouldn&#8217;t be pawning off the meme that &#8220;the value is all in the blogs with a dozen readers&#8221;.  Why do they publish on a web of a billion then, instead of privately these Alisters a tale-enders, I wonder&#8230;?&#8230;;-D</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;ve waited for speech-to-text to broaden the base of the tail for a while, especially in workplaces (being the utilitarian), but haven&#8217;t seen a while lot&#8230;</p>
<p>Anyhoo, keep the snowballs flying uphill, I allus say&#8230;;-D  Iow, enjoying yer blog, shameless hypocrite that I am.</p>
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		<title>By: Suw</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1707</link>
		<dc:creator>Suw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 15:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1707</guid>
		<description>I think you're looking too closely at a small part of the blogosphere, which is fair enough considering  that this is, after all, a metablog concerned with the whole business of blogging. But look beyond the metablogosphere for the value and you'll find it.

Take my friend Kate. Never interested in blogs until she became interested in stained glass. Now she has a blog, upon which she is collecting information about stained glass. http://owlwood.net/blog/

Because of her blog she's come across people she wouldn't otherwise have come across, she's found resources she wouldn't otherwise have found, and she's becomming a part of a community of online stained glass people. Her blog is new, but as it develops, so will her knowledge of stained glass and the people involved in that craft. To me, the empowerment there is obvious - the blog allows her to collate resources and connect to people in a way that she could not otherwise do.

Look further than the metasphere, look in the long tail, and you'll see people doing stuff with blogs that is truly useful, interesting and beneficial. You'll find there the people who are truly empowered by blogs. It's only around the spike, and amongst those who wish they were in the spike, that the whuffie feifdoms you talk of hold sway.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re looking too closely at a small part of the blogosphere, which is fair enough considering  that this is, after all, a metablog concerned with the whole business of blogging. But look beyond the metablogosphere for the value and you&#8217;ll find it.</p>
<p>Take my friend Kate. Never interested in blogs until she became interested in stained glass. Now she has a blog, upon which she is collecting information about stained glass. <a href="http://owlwood.net/blog/" rel="nofollow">http://owlwood.net/blog/</a></p>
<p>Because of her blog she&#8217;s come across people she wouldn&#8217;t otherwise have come across, she&#8217;s found resources she wouldn&#8217;t otherwise have found, and she&#8217;s becomming a part of a community of online stained glass people. Her blog is new, but as it develops, so will her knowledge of stained glass and the people involved in that craft. To me, the empowerment there is obvious - the blog allows her to collate resources and connect to people in a way that she could not otherwise do.</p>
<p>Look further than the metasphere, look in the long tail, and you&#8217;ll see people doing stuff with blogs that is truly useful, interesting and beneficial. You&#8217;ll find there the people who are truly empowered by blogs. It&#8217;s only around the spike, and amongst those who wish they were in the spike, that the whuffie feifdoms you talk of hold sway.</p>
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		<title>By: JamesJayTrouble</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1706</link>
		<dc:creator>JamesJayTrouble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 14:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1706</guid>
		<description>Hey again!

What I can't figure out is what blogs empower one _to do_, other than collect groupies like me.  Not saying that's the only value, but that seems to be the main one...  And I don't know Dr. Shirky's Power Law well but it appears that the ones empowered are the whuffieKings more 'n anybody.

Iow, the long tail curves around are forms a Pundisphere.

http://civilities.net/OtherSpheresOfMedia

Again, I ask for who's benefit?  Imho, the Net and blogging in particular is the opposite of Democracy, it's a Feudal society much more than anything...  And I recall John Patrick writing writing his (and my) hope, couple years back, that blogging would allow voices that would n't normally be heard to get heard somehow.  That's the rarest of exceptions.

They get herded, not heard!

"There's definitely a Dunbar number related barrier, I reckon."

Had to look up, the 150 number...  I do think that number is raised considerably by blogs, but what the interlocking social groups formed _mainly do_ is accumulate whuffie for the Dukes and Duchesses of the Blogdom, in my observation.



</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey again!</p>
<p>What I can&#8217;t figure out is what blogs empower one _to do_, other than collect groupies like me.  Not saying that&#8217;s the only value, but that seems to be the main one&#8230;  And I don&#8217;t know Dr. Shirky&#8217;s Power Law well but it appears that the ones empowered are the whuffieKings more &#8216;n anybody.</p>
<p>Iow, the long tail curves around are forms a Pundisphere.</p>
<p><a href="http://civilities.net/OtherSpheresOfMedia" rel="nofollow">http://civilities.net/OtherSpheresOfMedia</a></p>
<p>Again, I ask for who&#8217;s benefit?  Imho, the Net and blogging in particular is the opposite of Democracy, it&#8217;s a Feudal society much more than anything&#8230;  And I recall John Patrick writing writing his (and my) hope, couple years back, that blogging would allow voices that would n&#8217;t normally be heard to get heard somehow.  That&#8217;s the rarest of exceptions.</p>
<p>They get herded, not heard!</p>
<p>&#8220;There&#8217;s definitely a Dunbar number related barrier, I reckon.&#8221;</p>
<p>Had to look up, the 150 number&#8230;  I do think that number is raised considerably by blogs, but what the interlocking social groups formed _mainly do_ is accumulate whuffie for the Dukes and Duchesses of the Blogdom, in my observation.</p>
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		<title>By: Suw</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1705</link>
		<dc:creator>Suw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2005 23:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1705</guid>
		<description>I think blogs *can* be empowering, in smaller scale communities, but once you get into metablogging, where so many people seem to want to be, it all breaks down. I think the most value to bloggers is actually in the long tail, and for bloggers who aren't interested in the spike. There's definitely a Dunbar number related barrier, I reckon.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think blogs *can* be empowering, in smaller scale communities, but once you get into metablogging, where so many people seem to want to be, it all breaks down. I think the most value to bloggers is actually in the long tail, and for bloggers who aren&#8217;t interested in the spike. There&#8217;s definitely a Dunbar number related barrier, I reckon.</p>
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		<title>By: JamesJayTrouble</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1704</link>
		<dc:creator>JamesJayTrouble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2005 23:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1704</guid>
		<description>Suw,

"Once you're older, you either have a stash of permanent whuffie earnt through your past exploits which you can always draw on..."
:
"The whuffieocracy is not a meritocracy, same as the blogosphere is not a meritocracy despite everyone hoping that it would be."

Worse yet, it's the opposite of a meritocracy, usually.

:

Rick,

"Let's face it, blogging does not empower people in a general sense since most people will never have their blog read or their ideas quoted/discussed."

That's why there's so much written by the whuffieKings and there minions about how the net is so egalitarian and how EMPOWERING blogs are.

"Yes, they can publish, but if no one reads their blogs, is there any point to publishing (aside from ego gratification)?"

Imv, not much and the ego gratification is the largest part of why the whuffieKings want to accumulate MORE whuffie...  Not just (or mainly) the part about getting uphill of the rest of us.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suw,</p>
<p>&#8220;Once you&#8217;re older, you either have a stash of permanent whuffie earnt through your past exploits which you can always draw on&#8230;&#8221;<br />
:<br />
&#8220;The whuffieocracy is not a meritocracy, same as the blogosphere is not a meritocracy despite everyone hoping that it would be.&#8221;</p>
<p>Worse yet, it&#8217;s the opposite of a meritocracy, usually.</p>
<p>:</p>
<p>Rick,</p>
<p>&#8220;Let&#8217;s face it, blogging does not empower people in a general sense since most people will never have their blog read or their ideas quoted/discussed.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why there&#8217;s so much written by the whuffieKings and there minions about how the net is so egalitarian and how EMPOWERING blogs are.</p>
<p>&#8220;Yes, they can publish, but if no one reads their blogs, is there any point to publishing (aside from ego gratification)?&#8221;</p>
<p>Imv, not much and the ego gratification is the largest part of why the whuffieKings want to accumulate MORE whuffie&#8230;  Not just (or mainly) the part about getting uphill of the rest of us.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Wolff</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1703</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Wolff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Apr 2005 07:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1703</guid>
		<description>Desparation for whuffie leads to extreme behavior, precisely to capture whuffie. Think of terrorists who time their attacks to make the evening news. Or the lonely and alienated teens who shoot up their school. One of the highest rated LiveJournal posts: a girl murders her mother and writes about it. It's only a matter of time before someone takes Scoble's family hostage, demanding attention on the blog.

A bit morbid for a Sunday evening.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Desparation for whuffie leads to extreme behavior, precisely to capture whuffie. Think of terrorists who time their attacks to make the evening news. Or the lonely and alienated teens who shoot up their school. One of the highest rated LiveJournal posts: a girl murders her mother and writes about it. It&#8217;s only a matter of time before someone takes Scoble&#8217;s family hostage, demanding attention on the blog.</p>
<p>A bit morbid for a Sunday evening.</p>
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		<title>By: Willful Expos&#233;</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1702</link>
		<dc:creator>Willful Expos&#233;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Apr 2005 03:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1702</guid>
		<description>The rich get richer and the poor get poorer!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The rich get richer and the poor get poorer!</p>
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		<title>By: hugh macleod</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1701</link>
		<dc:creator>hugh macleod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Apr 2005 17:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1701</guid>
		<description>Ermmmm.... What's the point of getting a skilift if you don't have a hill for it to go up ;-)
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ermmmm&#8230;. What&#8217;s the point of getting a skilift if you don&#8217;t have a hill for it to go up <img src='http://strange.corante.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Suw</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1700</link>
		<dc:creator>Suw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Apr 2005 14:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2005/03/28/whuffie-and-the-snowball#comment-1700</guid>
		<description>You're missing the point, Hugh. I'm not complaining that Doc has too much whuffie, or saying that the amount of whuffie he does have is unfair. I'm not belittling him in any way and if you're interpreting my post like that, then you need to go back and reread it.

Doc was saying he likes rolling snowballs downhill, but I'm saying that you need to be uphill before you can do that - i.e. some of us don't have the choice but to keep pushing rocks uphill.

That's life, true, but that doesn't mean that it's not worth mentioning. You may find no worth in it, but that doesn't mean everyone else will also find it worthless. I've actually had a lot of feedback from this, here in the comments, on IRC and by email, so obviously this strikes a chord with other people and as far as I am concerned, that means it's a worthwhile point to make.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re missing the point, Hugh. I&#8217;m not complaining that Doc has too much whuffie, or saying that the amount of whuffie he does have is unfair. I&#8217;m not belittling him in any way and if you&#8217;re interpreting my post like that, then you need to go back and reread it.</p>
<p>Doc was saying he likes rolling snowballs downhill, but I&#8217;m saying that you need to be uphill before you can do that - i.e. some of us don&#8217;t have the choice but to keep pushing rocks uphill.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s life, true, but that doesn&#8217;t mean that it&#8217;s not worth mentioning. You may find no worth in it, but that doesn&#8217;t mean everyone else will also find it worthless. I&#8217;ve actually had a lot of feedback from this, here in the comments, on IRC and by email, so obviously this strikes a chord with other people and as far as I am concerned, that means it&#8217;s a worthwhile point to make.</p>
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