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	<title>Comments on: Six Apart spins like a Whirling Dervish</title>
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	<link>http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish</link>
	<description>Picking out patterns in the chaos</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 21:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Veronica</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2451</link>
		<dc:creator>Veronica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 22:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2451</guid>
		<description>I'm waaay late to the party but I just have to make a point.  My (currently on vacation) blog is on Squarespace and I have never had spam of any kind.  I've used both Typepad and Wordpress, briefly, and Squarespace is far superior, in my opinion.

My blog has never been "down" that I'm aware of and I have complete control over who comments, who visits, etc.

Squarespace has a free trial.  My advice is to try it just to see how amazing a blog service can be.  Even if you don't switch because you're "invested" in a service someplace else, you'll at least know the level of quality that you should expect.

My guess is that if you tried it, you'd switch.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m waaay late to the party but I just have to make a point.  My (currently on vacation) blog is on Squarespace and I have never had spam of any kind.  I&#8217;ve used both Typepad and Wordpress, briefly, and Squarespace is far superior, in my opinion.</p>
<p>My blog has never been &#8220;down&#8221; that I&#8217;m aware of and I have complete control over who comments, who visits, etc.</p>
<p>Squarespace has a free trial.  My advice is to try it just to see how amazing a blog service can be.  Even if you don&#8217;t switch because you&#8217;re &#8220;invested&#8221; in a service someplace else, you&#8217;ll at least know the level of quality that you should expect.</p>
<p>My guess is that if you tried it, you&#8217;d switch.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Despain</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2450</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Despain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2450</guid>
		<description>While I am a little late to this party, I find it truly amusing that you focus on comment spam and altogether ignore the failings that Wordpress has a platform (constantly hitting the database), along with the obvious security implications of shipping a rooted product.

I will agree with you in one regard. MT was treated like a back burner development product but I was pleasantly surprised that 3.34 was such an improvement. I also expect that MT will improve faster than Wordpress this year. Furthermore your post simply isn't fair to MT. They have built channels to gather feedback. You berate them for building the channels. You say this,"so 6A haven't achieved their goal of making blogs failure-proof, why spend five paragraphs claiming they had?"

It's all relative right? You can work to improve a product and still have room for improvement.

As far as your support claims, they are purely anecdotal and completely at odds with my own anecdotal experience. I have the support system at  6A responsive and effective. They have solved the problems with my installation MT quickly.

As far as the Spammer problem, are you suggesting that Wordpress has no such problems.

Here's my take on the issue.
http://thalasar.com/archives/movable_type_vs.html
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I am a little late to this party, I find it truly amusing that you focus on comment spam and altogether ignore the failings that Wordpress has a platform (constantly hitting the database), along with the obvious security implications of shipping a rooted product.</p>
<p>I will agree with you in one regard. MT was treated like a back burner development product but I was pleasantly surprised that 3.34 was such an improvement. I also expect that MT will improve faster than Wordpress this year. Furthermore your post simply isn&#8217;t fair to MT. They have built channels to gather feedback. You berate them for building the channels. You say this,&#8221;so 6A haven&#8217;t achieved their goal of making blogs failure-proof, why spend five paragraphs claiming they had?&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all relative right? You can work to improve a product and still have room for improvement.</p>
<p>As far as your support claims, they are purely anecdotal and completely at odds with my own anecdotal experience. I have the support system at  6A responsive and effective. They have solved the problems with my installation MT quickly.</p>
<p>As far as the Spammer problem, are you suggesting that Wordpress has no such problems.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s my take on the issue.<br />
<a href="http://thalasar.com/archives/movable_type_vs.html" rel="nofollow">http://thalasar.com/archives/movable_type_vs.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: John Handelaar</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2449</link>
		<dc:creator>John Handelaar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2449</guid>
		<description>Like Suw, I'm sick to the back teeth of 6A's attitude to MT's failings.

One more time for the Panglossian Anil:  It's The Spam, Stupid.  We're drowning, and you're doing absolutely nothing about the problem.

Add to this a European representative whose response to my question about when if ever 6A was going to get around to working on *something* was to giggle around with his buddies and shout out loud across the room "Thanks for using the product" in the most sarcastic tone imaginable...

...before getting drunk and barging one of us across a room...

...and then (much later) hooking himself to a right-wing reactionary politician and forcing a conference-ful of people to listen to him drone at them...

We're basically done with this crap.  The outfit in question dropped MT like a hadful of dogshit some time ago, and I've successfully prevented at least a dozen multiblog license sales for 6A since.  Treat your customers like crap and just *see* what we'll do back to you.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like Suw, I&#8217;m sick to the back teeth of 6A&#8217;s attitude to MT&#8217;s failings.</p>
<p>One more time for the Panglossian Anil:  It&#8217;s The Spam, Stupid.  We&#8217;re drowning, and you&#8217;re doing absolutely nothing about the problem.</p>
<p>Add to this a European representative whose response to my question about when if ever 6A was going to get around to working on *something* was to giggle around with his buddies and shout out loud across the room &#8220;Thanks for using the product&#8221; in the most sarcastic tone imaginable&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;before getting drunk and barging one of us across a room&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;and then (much later) hooking himself to a right-wing reactionary politician and forcing a conference-ful of people to listen to him drone at them&#8230;</p>
<p>We&#8217;re basically done with this crap.  The outfit in question dropped MT like a hadful of dogshit some time ago, and I&#8217;ve successfully prevented at least a dozen multiblog license sales for 6A since.  Treat your customers like crap and just *see* what we&#8217;ll do back to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Appnel</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2448</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Appnel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2448</guid>
		<description>http://www.crunchnotes.com/?p=357

Every tool has it's day.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.crunchnotes.com/?p=357" rel="nofollow">http://www.crunchnotes.com/?p=357</a></p>
<p>Every tool has it&#8217;s day.</p>
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		<title>By: Leslie</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2447</link>
		<dc:creator>Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 01:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2447</guid>
		<description>Anil: We've got the biggest dedicated development, support, and product team working on Movable Type that has ever been focusd on any installed blogging tool ever. And they're not drifting off into creating bulletin board software, or writing wiki apps, they're just focused on kicking ass with the most powerful blogging platform around."

lol. I just find this statement funny. Thanks for the laugh. Back to drifting.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anil: We&#8217;ve got the biggest dedicated development, support, and product team working on Movable Type that has ever been focusd on any installed blogging tool ever. And they&#8217;re not drifting off into creating bulletin board software, or writing wiki apps, they&#8217;re just focused on kicking ass with the most powerful blogging platform around.&#8221;</p>
<p>lol. I just find this statement funny. Thanks for the laugh. Back to drifting.</p>
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		<title>By: billg</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2446</link>
		<dc:creator>billg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2446</guid>
		<description>Ezra:  In my experience, posting in WP is often slower than in MT. I'm sure this varies depending on  the configuration of different MySQL setups. Still, I've seen WP time out during a post, but never MT.

The truth is that both MT and WP (or any other PHP-based tool) will succumb to excess load at some point. The causes of that failure will be different, but they will fail just the same.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ezra:  In my experience, posting in WP is often slower than in MT. I&#8217;m sure this varies depending on  the configuration of different MySQL setups. Still, I&#8217;ve seen WP time out during a post, but never MT.</p>
<p>The truth is that both MT and WP (or any other PHP-based tool) will succumb to excess load at some point. The causes of that failure will be different, but they will fail just the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Appnel</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2445</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Appnel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:24:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2445</guid>
		<description>I don't work for Six Apart and have had my own share of disagreements with them, but I think you went a bit overboard which is my problem with your post. What bothered me the most about you rreport and reply is that your criticizing technical issues you don't see to understand or appreciate. As an end user I'm not suggesting you do, but if you are going to be a critic, especially as harsh a you are, you should.

&gt; I don't want a system that fails under malicious attack, because malicious attacks are common, and if it fails under attack then interested readers don't get to read. I would prefer a system that could cope with spam.

Understood, but just know any PHP tool wouldn't cope with spam well either if they were installed and run as a CGI.

A few years back the Apache Web Server team decided to start bundling PHP with the core distribution. (I believe after MT was initially built, but I could be wrong here -- the main point is PHP was NOT common 5+ years ago and CGI was.) That meant that not only was PHP spreading, but with a couple of quick configuration directives it was a built-in part of the server that was always running. The built-in nature of the PHP engine gave it peristence -- its always running. No other programming language has the "defaults" advantage except for say ASP if you consider the Microsoft stack.

So any weblog tool written in Python, Ruby or any other cross platform scripting language no matter how well coded could be immune to a spam flood unless the adminstrator takes the added extra steps to make it scale and protect it.

In order to address this sort of thing, it has becoming common practice to use FastCGI. Other web servers (like Ruby fans favorite, Lighttpd) require PHP to be run with FastCGI in order to make web apps scale. I don't think criticizing it's use in MT as if it is some gross neglegence of Six Apart's is completely unreasonable. I can understand criticisms that they weren't fast and thorugh enough in their roll out of that support. That is true and they've heard that countless times from me that I don't need to dwell on it. It's here now and it works.

&gt; I do expect a blogging platform to handle spam and to do the work for me, the same way as I expect Gmail to filter out the vast majority of spam email. Spam does not have any real impact on my experience of using Gmail because their filters are so good and they handle the spam gracefully. That's the sort of user experience MT needs to provide.

I'd just like to point out that you are comparing a hosted service (GMail) with software that you host and install "yourself." This is truly an apples and oranges comparison that indicates you don't appreciate the issues in which you are speaking. Comparing TypePad and Gmail would be accurate and from what I understand TypePad's comment spam handling is quite good. Both system put more resources and work into their spam protection then we could probably appreciate.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t work for Six Apart and have had my own share of disagreements with them, but I think you went a bit overboard which is my problem with your post. What bothered me the most about you rreport and reply is that your criticizing technical issues you don&#8217;t see to understand or appreciate. As an end user I&#8217;m not suggesting you do, but if you are going to be a critic, especially as harsh a you are, you should.</p>
<p>> I don&#8217;t want a system that fails under malicious attack, because malicious attacks are common, and if it fails under attack then interested readers don&#8217;t get to read. I would prefer a system that could cope with spam.</p>
<p>Understood, but just know any PHP tool wouldn&#8217;t cope with spam well either if they were installed and run as a CGI.</p>
<p>A few years back the Apache Web Server team decided to start bundling PHP with the core distribution. (I believe after MT was initially built, but I could be wrong here &#8212; the main point is PHP was NOT common 5+ years ago and CGI was.) That meant that not only was PHP spreading, but with a couple of quick configuration directives it was a built-in part of the server that was always running. The built-in nature of the PHP engine gave it peristence &#8212; its always running. No other programming language has the &#8220;defaults&#8221; advantage except for say ASP if you consider the Microsoft stack.</p>
<p>So any weblog tool written in Python, Ruby or any other cross platform scripting language no matter how well coded could be immune to a spam flood unless the adminstrator takes the added extra steps to make it scale and protect it.</p>
<p>In order to address this sort of thing, it has becoming common practice to use FastCGI. Other web servers (like Ruby fans favorite, Lighttpd) require PHP to be run with FastCGI in order to make web apps scale. I don&#8217;t think criticizing it&#8217;s use in MT as if it is some gross neglegence of Six Apart&#8217;s is completely unreasonable. I can understand criticisms that they weren&#8217;t fast and thorugh enough in their roll out of that support. That is true and they&#8217;ve heard that countless times from me that I don&#8217;t need to dwell on it. It&#8217;s here now and it works.</p>
<p>> I do expect a blogging platform to handle spam and to do the work for me, the same way as I expect Gmail to filter out the vast majority of spam email. Spam does not have any real impact on my experience of using Gmail because their filters are so good and they handle the spam gracefully. That&#8217;s the sort of user experience MT needs to provide.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d just like to point out that you are comparing a hosted service (GMail) with software that you host and install &#8220;yourself.&#8221; This is truly an apples and oranges comparison that indicates you don&#8217;t appreciate the issues in which you are speaking. Comparing TypePad and Gmail would be accurate and from what I understand TypePad&#8217;s comment spam handling is quite good. Both system put more resources and work into their spam protection then we could probably appreciate.</p>
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		<title>By: Ezra</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2444</link>
		<dc:creator>Ezra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2444</guid>
		<description>As a MT-to-WordPress switcher, I'd have to guess that it took me less time time to move to WordPress than it took you to complain about MT. Shoot, at the end, it was taking me more time to hit "publish" on a post in MT than it took me to switch.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a MT-to-WordPress switcher, I&#8217;d have to guess that it took me less time time to move to WordPress than it took you to complain about MT. Shoot, at the end, it was taking me more time to hit &#8220;publish&#8221; on a post in MT than it took me to switch.</p>
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		<title>By: billg</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2443</link>
		<dc:creator>billg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2443</guid>
		<description>I don't have a spam problem with GMail either, because Google throws an awful lot of resources at the problem. No single piece of software, no matter how clever, is going to be able to provide the same level of protection. That's what I meant by asserting that spam control needs to be seen as a problem for the network: Because individual pieces of software just can't cope, and it's foolish to pretend otherwise. Again, take away Akismet -- a network tool -- and think about the spam problem WP would have.The woods would be alive with the sound of MySQL crashes.

I suspect 6A's fundamental puzzle with MT -- how to combine static pages with the need to change those already published files without constant file regeneration -- is unsolvable.  So, yes, they allowed MT to languish while they were busy elsewhere.  But, I don't think they could have "fixed" MT in any case.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have a spam problem with GMail either, because Google throws an awful lot of resources at the problem. No single piece of software, no matter how clever, is going to be able to provide the same level of protection. That&#8217;s what I meant by asserting that spam control needs to be seen as a problem for the network: Because individual pieces of software just can&#8217;t cope, and it&#8217;s foolish to pretend otherwise. Again, take away Akismet &#8212; a network tool &#8212; and think about the spam problem WP would have.The woods would be alive with the sound of MySQL crashes.</p>
<p>I suspect 6A&#8217;s fundamental puzzle with MT &#8212; how to combine static pages with the need to change those already published files without constant file regeneration &#8212; is unsolvable.  So, yes, they allowed MT to languish while they were busy elsewhere.  But, I don&#8217;t think they could have &#8220;fixed&#8221; MT in any case.</p>
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		<title>By: Nik Cubrilovic</title>
		<link>http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2442</link>
		<dc:creator>Nik Cubrilovic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 20:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strange.corante.com/2007/02/23/six-apart-spins-like-a-whirling-dervish#comment-2442</guid>
		<description>Anil: it's funny because those guys might be "distracted" but they are producing damn fine code. Doing more than a single thing at once and solving problems you encounter yourself is what hackers do
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anil: it&#8217;s funny because those guys might be &#8220;distracted&#8221; but they are producing damn fine code. Doing more than a single thing at once and solving problems you encounter yourself is what hackers do</p>
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